MINES! :D

All about good tactics and strategies in the game.

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Re: MINES! :D

Postby Admiral Ghat » 01 Dec 2012 01:04

Or maybe we can ban mines altogether :evil:
Hate them SO MUCH! ;)

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Re: MINES! :D

Postby ninja_prime » 01 Dec 2012 08:26

I love mines.. great when they work, keeps other players from rushing!!
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Re: MINES! :D

Postby stAtrill » 01 Dec 2012 18:30

Admiral Ghat wrote:Or maybe we can ban mines altogether :evil:
Hate them SO MUCH! ;)

Oh god I despise them. I never take them in the hopes that others will take the high road, but never the less, there always seems to be one game a night where a 4 man team ends up with 5 SQUADS OF SCOUTS (FOR A TOTAL OF 20 MINEFIELDS ON SCREEN)! And that is only one side of the battle!

BD once got so mad he took all scouts. It was the funniest thing in the world. I am game for trading vortex and boosters for mines. Alternatively, I would love it if somehow you could place a maximum cap on the number of minefields in play per team, since overuse is the real issue and not the mines themselves.

Air has the same problem: it is awesome, but typically overused. People always seem to take as many air units as possible and try to support the air force with ground units. Kevx made a few air enabled maps that allowed one air squad per player - they are perfect! I would be game for unbanning air if all maps had a single squad, and an honor code for maps where you can take more.


TBH, I am dying for some variation, and this is why I am so glad to have ninja with us. We ended up unbanning vortex and boosters to make things interesting, and were even experimenting to try to get the formula right for air - and then had a bunch of new vets join right as the old ones got busy with life stuff (which became effectually a de facto re-ban). :|

/My 2 cents

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Re: MINES! :D

Postby -Scratchy- » 01 Dec 2012 20:54

This is something I never really got. Air is just another unit, albeit massively biased in cray's favour, much as DM1 is massively biased in OND's. Nuke rushes work the 1st time, but there after leave you seriously weak as bombers versus cray AA = 3 dead air units.
Most vets will mince you up if you rely on a nuke rush with bombers, if it even works (AMS in the right place negates it).

Personally, DM 7 no rules = best DM7.
Yes, I do know my avatar does looks like an angry jobbie. I feel it gives anyone considering reading my posts a reasonable amount of warning about the likely content.

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Re: MINES! :D

Postby stAtrill » 01 Dec 2012 21:23

-Scratchy- wrote:Nuke rushes work the 1st time, but there after leave you seriously weak as bombers versus cray AA = 3 dead air units.
Most vets will mince you up if you rely on a nuke rush with bombers, if it even works (AMS in the right place negates it).

For the record: when we were experimenting with air, there was a short while there where the ban was moved from air in general to just afterburners.

/Off topic
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Re: MINES! :D

Postby Chumpit » 02 Dec 2012 11:06

The main problem with mines I find is not that they are overpowered in large quantities but what they do to the general gameplay. They encourage turtleing and slow the game down and on wide open maps as their main counters (heavies and art) are beam food. DM7 they are easily got rid of though. I havent heard anyone ban vortex/heavy boosters since I started playing again... Is this a recent thing? Vortex isnt too much of a threat apart from at choke-points on maps like DM4 and are generally (imo) a waste of a squad as lights are not up to much else.

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Re: MINES! :D

Postby stAtrill » 03 Dec 2012 05:52

Chumpit wrote:I havent heard anyone ban vortex/heavy boosters since I started playing again... Is this a recent thing?

Yeah. Right about when you, BD, Sarve, Echo, mind and everyone else (myself included) got involved with life stuff (or other games), a bunch of new guys surfaced. Haha I do remember getting chewed out by a new vet for bringing vortex on a map, and another new vet also playing with us even suggested we remake the game.

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Re: MINES! :D

Postby Satch » 03 Dec 2012 21:20

When used in the correct situation (i.e when opponent is camping on DM7 and cannot run away from it), a vortex beam rush (with 2 squads of lights/4 vortex and 3 beams) is far too difficult to stop — especially if you are Cray. The length of invisibility coupled with shields is impossible to beat (providing no mistakes are made). Taking artillery isn't a good enough option to combat it, you won't do enough DPS before you die. It was banned for a good reason, too many games ruined by it.

People think vortex isn't that overpowered because when used incorrectly — for example in the middle of nowhere on DM1 — it isn't that useful, as you can just run away from it, and the lights are a liability late-game.

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Re: MINES! :D

Postby stAtrill » 03 Dec 2012 21:59

Satch wrote:When used in the correct situation (i.e when opponent is camping on DM7 and cannot run away from it), a vortex beam rush (with 2 squads of lights/4 vortex and 3 beams) is far too difficult to stop. The length of invisibility coupled with shields is impossible to beat. ... It was banned for a good reason, too many games ruined by it.

People think vortex isn't that overpowered because when used incorrectly — for example in the middle of nowhere on DM1 — it isn't that useful, as you can just run away from it, and the lights are a liability late-game.

I had never thought of that. o.o

On the other hand, consider that lights could be a general liability the whole time, depending on the game - they are two less moonbursts, and 3 less shields. If you are on the offensive against an opponent with 2 light squads, and player skills being equal, I can't see in my mind why steamrolling them wouldn't be an easy task.

If this is the case, then it seems that the answer for an opponent with lights+beams is don't camp, spread out, and take those beams out fast (which is the general recipe for a good GC game anyway).

Just a possibility.

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Re: MINES! :D

Postby Satch » 03 Dec 2012 23:17

Attacking is indeed the best strategy against that sort of rush, you can stop the lights before they get to your DZ, but that is only viable if you too are OND.

Say you (as Cray) spawn in DZ1 on Fear, and I'm in any other dropzone as OND. Even if you knew I was vortex rushing you (which you won't), you still won't be fast enough to get into a sensible place in the map to intercept my lights by the time I get there... Cray has to camp in order to stay alive, and you can't camp against the vortex.

Your jaegers might get to the hill first to waste a few gyros on the lights, but you won't get all of them (there are 8 and only 1 per squad needs to make it past).

Granted, this is in a 1v1 situation, it's easier to defend this as a team, but the fact remains that in the correct circumstances, it can't really be stopped, which is why taking vortex was banned in the first place (too many games on hilly maps turn into brainless rushes).

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