Crayven Corp. vs Order of the New Dawn

All about good tactics and strategies in the game.

Moderator: Moderators

Beginner
User avatar
Posts: 22
Joined: 26 Feb 2012 15:26
Location: Serbia

Crayven Corp. vs Order of the New Dawn

Postby Justinian » 28 Mar 2012 15:30

As I stated already few times, I prefer playing Crayven and I am very subjective about that matter. Despite that I know that OND should be prefered, especially for unexperienced players and in 1vs1... So from now on I will play with OND in tournament, and in open areas- flat maps which suits better OND....

But I am not going to give up on playing with Crayven completley. It looks obvious that ground Crayven forces are inferior and weaker in comparison to OND - which is overpowered. That's why nobody uses Crayven in tournament and it is rare to see Crayven players even in bigger battles - most players use OND strictly...

Before giving my statements and thoughts I will post Cray vs Ond tactics from one old GC clan site. Here what they say:
Cray vs Ond
Don't even think about it. Unless you like to get slaughtered by Ond's unmatchable speed. Ond Beams can take out any of your units from a safe distance. Scouts with mines will do nothing. You will have made yourself a weak ground force only good for scouting and running. Besides Ond will be on your butt before you can say Oh No.

Despite having better speed, most of the Crayven units and OND are equal in terms of firepower, defense (some say Crayven has better armor, but according to vehicle bars for same class they are even) and those are: APC's, Marines/Crusaders, Heavy Terradyne/Heavy Hoverdyne and Artilleries.

But, as said, all OND units have considerably better speed, which is their main advantage. Special weapons for those mentioned, are more or less equal, but it seems that OND Heavies have slightly better special equipment then Crayven. Despite lasting 10 seconds and longer recharge, energy shields make units completely untouchable even for tactical nukes, and it can be so important in initial encounters and head on battles... For that 10 seconds OND can did a lot of damage to Crayven army.

Although Crayven Anit Missle Shield stops attacks and helps, it is helpless against some special weapons and attacks. For example, Crusaders with moonburst charge can easily one shot kill and wipe out up to three strongest Heavy Terradyne with AMS on, and set on defense config. Marines can't do that to Heavy Hoverdyne with Energy shield on....

But many would probably say that I am wrong and that Shields are not so better then AMS, so nevermind this...

Main Battle Teradyne/Medium Hoverdynes, which should be main part and backbone of the army. Those units have same characteristics in terms of firepower and defense, but again OND wins because of much better special equipment - Shields, while Medium Terradynes don't have anti missle shields nor any good defensive protection... Not to mention better speed, so OND has big edge here...

Light tanks have same characteristics, but OND lights have another overpowered thing - Vortex, and because of that GC players agreed not to use it.. Anyway Light tanks are not so often used and to be seen, but even here OND has edge.

And scouts - it is all about speed, so again OND wins...

And one of considerable advantages for OND are Beams. They have considerable better firepower and much greater range in comparasion to Crayven Rockets... Those units are key ones of one army .. Reloading time is more or less same, but Beams can fire only horizontally, which is slightly disadvantage. Despite that OND easily outpowers and wins yet again.

And lastly, special units. Jaegers and Templars are different class of units, but it seems that Jagers are more useful and can contribute more so Crayven finally wins.

And not to forget, OND have one more unit then Crayven! So that makes them even more powerful. Nasty and dangerous Drones, which have great range, those drones can move and go anywhere, too bad that they can't fly and attack infantry, and they can terrorize Crayven, especially on hill battles configuration...

Some say that Crayven is good as OND, but needs more tactics and requires more thought.That might be a case but here is a proof that OND has better units in almost all classes, which puts from the start Crayven player in inferior position. Ofc. that it isn't impossible to defeat OND with Crayven, but it is rare and hard to achieve...

The story could be a little bit different with air units, but that doesn't matter since we don't play it.... So I would like to hear comments and suggestions from veteran, experienced players, how to overcome this and how can Crayven try to properly fight OND.
Image

Board-General
User avatar
Posts: 127
Joined: 23 Jan 2012 00:45
Location: Germany

Re: Crayven Corp. vs Order of the New Dawn

Postby [Crayven-Marine] » 28 Mar 2012 15:55

Hello Justinian,

well, you have already subsumatted the most topics reagarding unit classes and special weapons into your long post. Both classes have their advantages and disadvantages and these are offering different ways to create tactics and combinations of classes. In my experience the most players only use hit&run tactics with OND units (and there are really more than just that) and also there are slight imbalances regarding special weapons, as there are the scout special of OND vs Cray Scout special... a patch could have balanced that but it never came.

As far as the OND players dont reduce all tactical means given by the terrain in the maps to zero, like in "Desert" that is just a great plaine, its more even with CC then. Or let me say, when I play OND its just like: "Ok, I have some meds, I will send the first squad of them into the field...oh no, they are hit... shields on an back and immediately the next in... I better send some Beams also in to get rid of heavies or followers of my retreating forces.

But there are different tactics, where WIll Rock and others brought just some meds with AMS deployable and arty to hit a DZ with arty fire and beeing completly protected unter their AMS shieldarea and we have needed 4 Arties to get the others team site destroyed...

I also found in the total number of games played by me some good hosts, where I have had a ping of 80 which is really enough to use air units and I really you would like to see a bit more air units in game general. Also I really would like to try out to allow all weapons and units in GC Matches but have the full scale of possibilities within.

I know that some joiners will have problems in games then, but its worth to try it I guess.
_______________________________

“Consider your origin; you were not born to live like brutes, but to follow virtue and knowledge.” - Dante

Board-Major
User avatar
Posts: 79
Joined: 01 Mar 2012 20:15
Location: Oxfordshire, England

Re: Crayven Corp. vs Order of the New Dawn

Postby Chumpit » 28 Mar 2012 18:46

Now that you mention it CM, I dont think I have ever played a MP game of GC with air on, would it be so bad on a large map where each player has 3 DS?

Board-General
User avatar
Posts: 127
Joined: 23 Jan 2012 00:45
Location: Germany

Re: Crayven Corp. vs Order of the New Dawn

Postby [Crayven-Marine] » 28 Mar 2012 20:49

Thats what I mean. In acient times of GC, people always said..."noo, to laggy"... Bombers are unfair".... and and and. But we got DSL and faster PCs. I think it was Satch that used Boosters first this year and he brought to think about..."Hell yeah, why just accept NO AVB instead of trying AVB allowed these days - could be fun".

It also could make the game more interesting and bring some life into GC again...
_______________________________

“Consider your origin; you were not born to live like brutes, but to follow virtue and knowledge.” - Dante

Board-General
User avatar
Posts: 127
Joined: 23 Jan 2012 00:45
Location: Germany

Re: Crayven Corp. vs Order of the New Dawn

Postby [Crayven-Marine] » 28 Mar 2012 21:03

btw: Sorry for all my typos..
_______________________________

“Consider your origin; you were not born to live like brutes, but to follow virtue and knowledge.” - Dante

Beginner
User avatar
Posts: 22
Joined: 26 Feb 2012 15:26
Location: Serbia

Re: Crayven Corp. vs Order of the New Dawn

Postby Justinian » 29 Mar 2012 13:50

[Crayven-Marine] wrote:Thats what I mean. In acient times of GC, people always said..."noo, to laggy"... Bombers are unfair".... and and and. But we got DSL and faster PCs. I think it was Satch that used Boosters first this year and he brought to think about..."Hell yeah, why just accept NO AVB instead of trying AVB allowed these days - could be fun".

It also could make the game more interesting and bring some life into GC again...

Yes, I agree with you. Since I am new here, I didn't want to insist or ask a lot, about playin' AIR units... But definitely air units will bring new dimension and atmosphere in battles - and a new way of tactics, which some of players are not interested to do so... Crayven players would benefit a lot in that case, since Crayven has much better anti air unit and one more unit then OND - devastating bombers. So playing with air units matters Crayven players, mostly...

Nowdays, everybody has decent internet connection, so lagging won't be so terrible as one decade ago. In 4vs4 battles and even with 3 drop ships, there would be lag for sure, but in smaller battles such as 2vs2 I think that won't be a issue... So lagging better not be a excuse for those who aren't interested to play in such a battles....

So far I have played only one air battle here (I did it also few year ago in LAN battle), and here is the battle report (as can be seen on gc vets blog) and comment about that from GCVet nOx.

What’s better than a nice lose to start a night? To lose a cray air-on battle full of bombers, AA, rockets and confusion. I think our new fellas will think it twice before ask for an air game again (I hope).

Image

We decided and played air battle due to great insisting and asking from our new member Compuguy. He rushed with 2 Bomber units and was welcomed by anti air and fighters, so immediately at the start it was battle with half of air units... Carter didn't bring air units at all, and maybe even nOx didn't... Compuguy rushing strategy and quick lose of planes was a bad proof and bad example that air units are nothing interesting and not so great and only make confusion... Opposite to that, I got about half of my kills with air units..

But with air units you need to play as careful as with any other, even with strongest unit, and with that concept, air units can be the most deadly and fearsome in battle and spoil many plans of enemy commanders. With proper playing of air units, battles can be more complicated and more tricky...

Anyway, I don't insist on it at all, I am good and fine with your decisions and thoughts about that matter, GCVets!
Image

Board-General
User avatar
Posts: 110
Joined: 26 Feb 2012 17:42

Re: Crayven Corp. vs Order of the New Dawn

Postby Satch » 29 Mar 2012 19:45

Even with decent connections, if you're across the Atlantic from whoever is hosting the game, your ping is still high enough (130+) to fling Bomber nukes across the map during the first seconds of the game with double/triple speed booster trick — although admittedly triple speed booster requires a slightly higher ping than that. Don't get me wrong, I'm partial to the good ol' nuke trick and air units in general, but on certain maps where there isn't enough room for units in the dropzones in team games — Killing Fields is a good example — it makes for a very odd start to the game. GC's pathfinding can be wonky at the best of times, and finding yourself stuck behind teammates in DM4 when you know a doom drop of nukes is imminent is frustrating to say the least.

In air team games, you can't drop more than one ship at a time, and you need to have your shield-capable units hot keyed and react as soon as you see white dots on the mini-map. If you're Cray and the opponent flings nukes from their DZ, you need to rely on AMS, which is an absolute coin flip.

We should play more air (and Viking damage) games that's for sure, but the fact is that due to double equipment bugs present in online GC, and the fact that Order AA can't actually hit Crayven air units (forcing you to waste your Beam specials on them), aerodynes are not a good base for consistently enjoyable games. Once in a while yeah, but it should never be the standard — sorry Compuguy!

OND heavy speed boosters are a different story, and shouldn't have been banned in the first place. Rushing multiple squads of double-speed boosted heavies during the first few seconds of the game isn't a viable tactic, but using them to kill scouts and mines is.

Board-General
User avatar
Posts: 106
Joined: 26 Jan 2012 04:10

Re: Crayven Corp. vs Order of the New Dawn

Postby Admiral Ghat » 30 Mar 2012 02:23

I would still continue to use CC when you can, they are a blast to play with. I don't think that they are better or worse than OND, but it depends on terrain and CC does require more micromanagement. CC units support and complement each other, while OND can send out one squad at a time without much difficulty. I enjoy using CC when I can, but a lot of the time it really does come down to the map. Rockets can bring down the house in hilly areas, and jags have to be one of the coolest and deadliest units of all time in RTS games. As for the drone being a "bonus" support unit, it is next to useless against AMS so it's really an attrition unit most of the time against CC in my opinion. Once the AMS is gone, of course, the fireworks start but beams are a better option most of the time.

Just as an addendum, I did use CC in one of my tournament matches on Fear, though I admit not being too proud of some of the tactics I employed after the first five minutes.

Beginner
Posts: 2
Joined: 15 Mar 2012 06:37

Re: Crayven Corp. vs Order of the New Dawn

Postby mhawk » 31 Mar 2012 22:08

Justinian, the easiest way for me to show you what cray can do is probably for you to play me 1 on 1 I'll go cray you go ond.

Board-General
User avatar
Posts: 127
Joined: 23 Jan 2012 00:45
Location: Germany

Re: Crayven Corp. vs Order of the New Dawn

Postby [Crayven-Marine] » 01 Apr 2012 12:52

Theoria cum praxi...
_______________________________

“Consider your origin; you were not born to live like brutes, but to follow virtue and knowledge.” - Dante

Next

Return to Ground Control - Tactics | Strategies

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest