Cray Balance. The Noob input

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Re: Cray Balance. The Noob input

Postby Admiral Ghat » 27 Jun 2015 17:01

Would need to compare vs. current statistics?

I'm not sure that CC needs this particular change, especially since the equipment now buffs those aspects of Cray that fit a play style. For example, Mind has been messing around with units with the powerplant to give them a serious speed boost, and I've been using the the repair pack much more now. It makes the unit almost unkillable without specs. So if someone wants more speed, the power plant is there for them. Point being, it seems like people are still adjusting to the new dynamics available even though we've had the current mod update for a number of months. The only thing I regret not putting in is the heavy tank turret turn speed, but it's not major enough right now that I feel like we need another version immediately.

Also, for those interested, Van, Carter, and I did a few tutorial videos last night for Crayven. Hopefully Carter can get them up on Youtube in a few weeks after editing. Idea was to help newer players understand how Cray functions in different situations because I do feel they are more dynamic than people give credit for.

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Re: Cray Balance. The Noob input

Postby stAtrill » 27 Jun 2015 17:37

Admiral Ghat wrote:... I'm not sure that CC needs this particular change, especially since the equipment now buffs those aspects of Cray that fit a play style. ...
Valid feedback - as I mentioned, this is just a concept to foster discussion. The intention was mainly to allow further variations in loadout in combination with the equipments (as opposed to fixing some outstanding issue), due to limitations in the equipment*. I personally feel like there is much more tactical depth to this game that we could unlock by encouraging mixed combinations of loadouts/equipments.

*All equipment modifies on a percentage basis, giving scaling issues when the numbers you are dealing with have a high spread. For example, if powerplant was tuned for balanced or offensive meds, speed meds would be much too fast. Numerical examples:
Medium on speed: 24 m/s
Medium balanced: 20 m/s
Medium on stealth/off: 15 m/s

Since all equipments must modify on percentage basis, the percentages stack (which, again, isn't good with a high relative spread):
Speed with powerplant: 29 m/s (+5)
Stealth/Off with powerplant: 18 m/s (+3) Note that this is still slower than the balanced loadout

The above behavior is opposite of ideal, but is yet-another-enigine-limitation (YAEL) that we will have to work around.

Also, I would look forward to seeing the videos!


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Re: Cray Balance. The Noob input

Postby Ninja_Prime52 » 26 Jul 2015 07:01

I am not really sure if trying to balance the CC to be more like the OND is going to work, as it was never really intended to be that way from the get go. CC are supposed to be slower than OND but compensate for this by been tougher and having more powerful but slower guns. Well that was the intention. They were supposed to be more suited to the "Camping" type player, where as the OND were/are supposed to be "Hit , Run and ambush" type player. I've said this before, but the concept behind GC was to have two factions that were completely different and it was up to the player to understand their opponents weakness and strengths and use it to defeat them. Terrain also plays an important role in GC as hiding in the shadows and controlling the high ground can have a major factor in the outcome of the game, as some maps favour one faction or the other.
Massive were trying to accommodate for all play styles and tried to have some sort of level playing field, but balancing was always going to be an issue, as it is with these types of games.
Lets get one thing straight from the start, this is not an RTS game, there is no base building, economy tree or even Tech tree. You are given the same units as everyone else. GC is a game of tactics, a game of chess played on a 3D world.
If you read a book called "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu, you'll get a better idea of what Massive were trying to do with this title.
At the end of the day, all the balancing etc. that goes on will only be subjective as the whole appeal of GC was to outsmart your opponent with what ever forces you had. Don't forget that in MP one team member can be OND and another CC, its a case of which team uses them together wisely.
I do believe we have had one or two games where we have fielded only CC units.... Maybe if there are enough players we could have one session where you could only bring CC units, yes also have aeros included if you wanted.
CC are more conventional with regards to weapons and tactics and should have been easier to use for the new player, while OND were supposed to be harder to get to grips with because they were only supposed to be used for more advanced tactics "Hit and Run and flanking" and needed to be used wisely because of their weaker weapons and even weaker armour, anyway that was the original intention, but all good plans and all that! It's funny how things have changed!
Regarding DC and in particular the PHX? this should never have happened, Massive handed the reigns over to High Voltage for this title, rather than introduce a new faction they should have concentrated on improving the original game.
Having a faction that is supposed to bridge the gap between the CC and OND didn't really work IMHO. Would it add anything by introducing a 3rd faction to the MP game? possibly, but how many people here would actually use them? we would only end up having another balancing debate.

BTW if you want a PDF copy of "The Art of War" here is a link ... SunTzu.pdf


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