Shall we take 3 weeks to rebalance Cray?

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Shall we take 3 weeks to rebalance Cray?

Yes
8
89%
No
0
No votes
Other (please explain)
1
11%
 
Total votes : 9
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Shall we take 3 weeks to rebalance Cray?

Postby stAtrill » 06 Aug 2014 07:00

This will probably be the biggest thing I have ever asked from the community - I would like to hear back from as many people as possible, as soon as possible. Would all members who read this please cast your vote in the poll above, and ask that anyone else who hasn't yet done so come and vote as well. I used a poll because it is anonymous, allowing people to freely speak their mind without repercussion. Votes are changeable, so throw something out there knowing you can revise it at any time.

Terms:
It seems a CC rebalance is a controversial subject, so to guarantee an outcome that is acceptable to everyone, I feel we should put the following terms into place:
-We have a 3 week deadline to home in on an acceptable solution
-A further turret nerf will be implemented (currently working details out with the team, but it will be well thought-out)


Before voting in the above poll, please read the following post, which details the comparison between CC and OND. Important: The above poll is only about whether or not we need to rebalance CC!!!! We will address how to do it later - we must first decide if it needs to be done.

-Stat

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Re: Shall we take 3 weeks to rebalance Cray?

Postby stAtrill » 06 Aug 2014 07:29

Here is how CC lines up vs OND now:
Maximum Speeds: ~28% slower
Acceleration: ~12.5% slower
Movement and accuracy penalty when under fire (speed and accuracy halved)
Turn Rates: from 40 - 50% slower
Tanks' turret turn rates: ~30 - 87% slower (most units are 30% slower, heavies are 87.5% slower, mediums and arty have same speeds)*
Weapon damages: equal
Weapon speeds: 100 m/s slower across the board (which can be anywhere from 20 - 30% slower, with the exception of arty, which have same speeds)
Weapon accuracies: generally 10 points less (~10% less, with the exception of beams which have boosted accuracy, and arty)
Weapon splash ranges: equal, except for artillery, which is 20 m smaller (~16.6% less)
Weapon reload times: equal, except for artillery, which is 1s longer (20% longer)
Hitboxes: generally taller, yet slimmer
Health: larger, by precisely 16.6%, with the exception of the APC, which we boosted to 36.6%
Armor: equal
View ranges: equal, with the exception of the mediums, which are 25 m less (8%)
Attack ranges: equal, with the exception of the scouts, which are 50 m more (25%)
Perception: equal
Stealth: equal
Score awarded for death: equal, with the exception of scouts, which award 50% more

*difficult to calculate, as some CC turrets are even as much as 75% slower when turning in the X axis

Just in case this isn't obvious, percentage change is calculated as difference / OND value to put them relative to cray (which is why, for example, max speeds is CC 28% slower, rather than OND 40% faster)

Also, there are differences that the numbers above can't show. For example, the 20m shorter splash range means that CC artillery cannot poke defenderguns, while OND arty can. I should also mention that the numbers above are not cooked or skewed in any way - the above is a complete list of all numerical game attributes, and CC is legitimately behind on just about everything.

For those of you prone to start mulling over how this list could be changed to strike a better, well, balance (har-har), remember that the thread for that will come - this thread simply asks if the community thinks we should do something about this.

-Stat
Last edited by stAtrill on 11 Aug 2014 07:04, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Shall we take 3 weeks to rebalance Cray?

Postby Sarvik » 06 Aug 2014 09:35

Would 3 weeks start ticking from the moment then poll is concluded or from moment then first version is ready for playtesting?
stAtrill wrote:Score awarded for death: equal

I remember Cray scouts giving more points on death.

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Re: Shall we take 3 weeks to rebalance Cray?

Postby stAtrill » 06 Aug 2014 14:00

Sarvik wrote:Would 3 weeks start ticking from the moment then poll is concluded or from moment then first version is ready for playtesting?
Not necessarily either, it more refers to 3 contiguous weekends of games. It is usually easy to tweak any version, but anytime new things are added it takes quite a bit more time, so, in that event, there may be a weekend delay before starting :P

Sarvik wrote:
stAtrill wrote:Score awarded for death: equal

I remember Cray scouts giving more points on death.
Wow, good catch. I went back to double check every unit, and all of them, including aeros, and including beams/rockets, share the same point value, save for scouts. I find it odd that scouts award the same point value as meds, I almost wonder if it is a typo. Anyway, updated.

-Stat

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Re: Shall we take 3 weeks to rebalance Cray?

Postby _nOx_ » 06 Aug 2014 15:03

In my opinion Cray should be slower and tougher whilst OND should be faster and weaker. Remember differences in specs, equipments and play styles of units should be considered. (jags, templars, rockets, beams, ams, shields, etc)
Also remember that teams are made by both factions so do whatever you want but keep them different.

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Re: Shall we take 3 weeks to rebalance Cray?

Postby stAtrill » 06 Aug 2014 19:33

Right - specs/equipments were not considered, and neither were units that are not analogues (temps/jeags, for example). I will probably amend the analysis to include those later.

Also Nox, remember to cast your vote! We need everyone to vote! :)

-Stat

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Re: Shall we take 3 weeks to rebalance Cray?

Postby XFunc_CaRteR » 06 Aug 2014 23:08

Could people at least try one of my changes?

You might be surprised. Really. It might actually make Cray work on open maps.

Have a little faith, people.

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Re: Shall we take 3 weeks to rebalance Cray?

Postby _nOx_ » 06 Aug 2014 23:29

By making CC equal to OND in open maps you do realize you'll end up
1.- Making CC a OND with different appearance
or
2.- Making CC insufferable in close maps

Don't you?

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Re: Shall we take 3 weeks to rebalance Cray?

Postby stAtrill » 07 Aug 2014 00:28

_nOx_ wrote:In my opinion Cray should be slower and tougher whilst OND should be faster and weaker.
XFunc_CaRteR wrote:Could people at least try one of my changes?
C'mon, guys! Wrong thread for this -
stAtrill wrote:... Important: The above poll is only about whether or not we need to rebalance CC!!!! We will address how to do it later - we must first decide if it needs to be done.


Have patience gentlemen, the discussion thread will come - this is basically a vote thread for the question: "should we try to correct CC's balance?" Besides, neither of you two have even cast your votes yet! :evil: Would you please cast your votes? That is the whole point of this thread :P

Cheers,
-Stat

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Re: Shall we take 3 weeks to rebalance Cray?

Postby Sarvik » 07 Aug 2014 08:57

I can see what is Nox's concern but I believe that there may be some way to give crays better options for flat maps, without massively buffing them on closed maps at same time. Its questionable if we can achieve full balance that way but some improvement of current situation could be imo achievable.

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