The Crayven Turrets Issue

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The Crayven Turrets Issue

Postby XFunc_CaRteR » 02 Aug 2014 21:46

Last night I played Order and came up against some turrets. I had turned on the range indicator for a beam and watched the range as I came up to the turret and how soon the turret was able to engage me. It was rather abrupt.

Nox has had strong objections to them, but I don't think he has the game design syntax to really communicate the way they violate the spirit of GC. Now I think I understand.

I think that if you reduce the range of the turrets slightly - to perhaps around the same range as Mediums - you'd solve the problem. (And maybe nerf the damage just slightly.)

The basic thing is that Order Beams live-and-die by their long range. Nox is expert in playing them. Their strength is in their stand-off attack ability. The turrets have range that is virtually equal to Beams (just a tiny bit less, but still enough that by the time a Beam sees one you literally have one second to shield before you die.)

THAT is the problem, I believe. So reducing the turret range a bit might address this.

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Re: The Crayven Turrets Issue

Postby shpooky » 02 Aug 2014 23:22

what about reducing the accuracy so that all the shots from the turret dont hit you straight away
i only work in cyan and sometimes really really bright blue :D so bright it burns your eyes!!!!!

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Re: The Crayven Turrets Issue

Postby XFunc_CaRteR » 04 Aug 2014 20:24

The thing is, I think it's not just a turrets thing, but the issue is in how the turrets relate to Beams. I'm thinking we need more harmony there.

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Re: The Crayven Turrets Issue

Postby _nOx_ » 06 Aug 2014 00:15

You seem to be obsessed with my beams and you seem to keep missing the point so, once again, I'll try to explain.

Something unmmaned that last the whole game, has a considerably wide range, an spectacular accuracy, more firepower than a squad of rockets, and is so difficult to take down that a squad of meds with shields but without specs will fail to kill in a frontal attack is a bad idea. Beams are weak. It is normal they fall. But if I meet a squad of rockets with those shielded specless 4 meds I can try and get at least one rocket down, maybe two, in a great lucky day even the three of them.

Turrets make comebacks impossible in the most interesting games. Those where the fight was so close and balanced that everyone has burnt all the specs and even the equipmets and have to bite their way through. If it is going to be impossible to get the score and you can't even have a good fight cause you need to spend 8 minutes dealing with something as dull as an autocannon in a flat map, I won't blame early leavers.

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Re: The Crayven Turrets Issue

Postby XFunc_CaRteR » 06 Aug 2014 00:59

I just use artillery to take them out. In fact, that's an easy few points, considering that once we know where a turret is, we know where to fire arty to kill it for a guaranteed kill.

But it still makes the Crayven Lights finally worth taking.

I've been taking a lot of turrets, and I've been finding that often they don't even get planted because both my Lights and the turrets themselves become priority targets.

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Re: The Crayven Turrets Issue

Postby _nOx_ » 06 Aug 2014 23:31

You can't burden teams making them bring artillery to open maps. Also those arty aren't going to last enough to meet the point I'm talking about.

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Re: The Crayven Turrets Issue

Postby XFunc_CaRteR » 07 Aug 2014 17:33

I bring arty to open maps as a backup.

All you need is one arty on a team.

NOTE: This ALSO makes artillery useful on open maps too.

But anyway, I do think the secret is to nerf the RANGE of the turrets slightly.

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Re: The Crayven Turrets Issue

Postby stAtrill » 11 Aug 2014 18:30

XFunc_CaRteR wrote:But anyway, I do think the secret is to nerf the RANGE of the turrets slightly.
What is slightly? Below is a comparison.

Heavy Autocannon:
view range = 330 m
attack range = 300 m

Beam platforms/Rockets:
view/attack range = 350 m

Mediums/drones:
view/attack range = 300 m (drones can launch special weapons to 350 meters)

Heavies are already immune to the turret, and beam platforms already outrange it by the same distance they outrange meds. My original fear was that dropping the range even more would have the turret out-ranged by every common battle unit. I am not sure that will be terrible though, as people don't seem to currently use them so much as static emplacements as they do to ambush/watch passages and turret-dive enemy formations.

-Stat

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Re: The Crayven Turrets Issue

Postby shpooky » 17 Aug 2014 01:50

and about nox's argument of them ruining games at the end

when no one has anymore specs and one of the teams have a turret left and they just hide behind it ,it ruins the game the other team can't assault it cause it takes out anything that gets in range including beams/meds/infantry/possibly even air

the point is you can't have a turret/unit that is good against everything in the game
unless its very very weak/has a weakness
like the arty does a shit ton of dmg but if you get close enough its very weak

the turret must have a weakness so far it really doesn't have one(and no carter artillery is not the answer cause it usually and almost always dies before the game is even finished) what do you do when you don't have a arty? nothing!
stat your idea about making the turret have huge reload times would be a great idea
or just possibly reducing dmg/accuracy make it have great accuracy and do little dmg like jags on a hill (without specs) or make it like arty (does a lot of dmg but doesn't have good accuracy)
or just make it so that it can't punch threw med armor and just acts as a anti infantry/light armor kind of thing
or even make it so that its weak against infantry just do something!!!!!
i only work in cyan and sometimes really really bright blue :D so bright it burns your eyes!!!!!

(if you have any questions don't be afraid to PM me or you can contact me via email ddavidshpak@aol.com)

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Re: The Crayven Turrets Issue

Postby XFunc_CaRteR » 17 Aug 2014 17:33

The turrets do have a weakness.

They are immobile. D'uh. Pretty straightforward weakness.

Being immobile you can either avoid them easily, get around them, or coordinate your units to take them out. Whereas any other unit, once you lose contact with it, it could move to somewhere else.

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