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www.gcvets.net - View topic - GC 1.1.0.1 update mod


GC 1.1.0.1 update mod

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Re: GC 1.1.0.1 update mod

Postby XFunc_CaRteR » 29 Jun 2014 16:33

Fair enough...

But Crayven still gets owned by Order on open maps. That's still unbalanced overall.

It's also a marketing and perception problem with the larger strategy gaming community. It's a barrier to entry when a new player comes in, likes the look-and-feel of Crayven better than Order, but finds that his preferred faction constantly gets destroyed and is basically reduced to being a "support faction" for Order.

In my opinion, that's a problem that we need to fix (and "take Order instead of Crayven" is not a fix).

In fact, it's arguable that THAT was one reason why GC never caught on in the larger strategy gaming community. Most people who do 3D strategy games can identify with Crayven. Crayven looks-and-feels like a typical modern mechanized infantry force. It's more familiar. Order is a little more far-out and harder to identify with.

I've also noticed that people now target auto cannons immediately. When they were new, they disoriented players and did a lot of kills. But now that people understand them, and prioritize them on the "kill list", the emergent gameplay seems to be that a heavy auto cannon might take out a unit or two and suck up an enemy special weapon and a shield, but that's about it (unless you get lucky). I do like them, though.

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Re: GC 1.1.0.1 update mod

Postby _nOx_ » 01 Jul 2014 08:33

I'll be brief.

If a mod makes me any good with Cray or makes me enjoy playing Cray more than OND it means the mod has killed Cray gameplay, OND gameplay or both and is, from my point of view, wrong.

You are obsessed about making CC equal to OND in open fields which should mean the next step would be making OND equal to CC in close terrain and therefore changing the whole gameplay and no. I don't like it but that's my opinion so I'll just wait till you finish doing whatever you want to do with the game and see if I find a way to enjoy playing the result.

Stat. You opened Pandora's box with the best intention and tons of effort and time. Let's see what's left at the end.

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Re: GC 1.1.0.1 update mod

Postby Ninja_Prime52 » 02 Jul 2014 06:34

Will this MOD kill GC?
This is a valid question that I want to ask everyone.
The issue that we may have developing here is, will the MOD change the game-style and gameplay of GC so that it changes it completely. That's a question we all need to ask ourselves, or will it make it a better game and enhance the game style or gameplay?

With all the hours and effort that STAT has put into this will we continue to play it in its MOD'd state or revert back to the original build?
We all have our own personal opinion about what would make a good balanced MOD, what changes we would like, and a wish list of features we would love to see etc. but at the end of the day is that what the community wants?
Game nights are not going to be the same, its part of the reason I am not playing at the moment as I am not sure what version of the game we are supposed to be playing.
As far as I was concerned the game was balanced enough for me, but because of the no air preference of the community, it un-balanced the game for me and I had to adapt to the changes, (Badly may I add).
For new players this must be daunting, having the correct files is difficult enough, but then having to keep changing them!.

Would it not be better to designate another night for MOD night, and keep Friday and Saturday for the regular game until all the testing has finished?
I thought one of our goals was to attract players to this game, and get them hooked on the gameplay and game-style, but this is going to be difficult if the goal posts keep changing.

I am all for MOD's, but they have their place, at the end of the day, no matter how much we feel that this game is unbalanced or not, we need to ask ourselves what originally brought us here and why we love this game so much.
So do we continue with the MOD, hell yes, it opens up possibilities and options, but like most things, there is a time and place for everything. The same goes with this GRID Mod I did, although it's not a balanced MOD as such, more an add-on to help coordinate and locate things better that favours neither CC nor OND, but the team.

I will keep quite for now and see where this goes.
See you on the ground guy's... with what ever version we play...
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Re: GC 1.1.0.1 update mod

Postby stAtrill » 02 Jul 2014 18:54

Last edited by stAtrill on 02 Jul 2014 19:18, edited 3 times in total.


Another GC archive:

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Re: GC 1.1.0.1 update mod

Postby stAtrill » 02 Jul 2014 19:07



Another GC archive:

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Re: GC 1.1.0.1 update mod

Postby Sarvik » 02 Jul 2014 19:34

I don't think that balancing crays with OND on truly flat and open maps is a realistic goal. There are only 2 ways to do it: make crays as fast as ond OR give crays shitload more firepower/survivability than OND. Neither one is imo good idea. Balance mod should stick to original goal, that was (as far as I understood it) improving substandard units/equipment (on both factions) to provide players with more options, without changing core gameplay experience.

I think that up to this point the mod has pushed nicely towards this goal even if some changes may possibly require adjusting/reversing, thats completely normal. Also I would like to say that I am super thankful to Stat for putting all that effort into this and also putting up with occasional not most constructive feedback.

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Re: GC 1.1.0.1 update mod

Postby XFunc_CaRteR » 02 Jul 2014 22:37

Couple points:

I'm not suggesting making Crayven the same as OND. I said semi-symmetrical, not symmetrical. Right now its assymetrical and OND IS the dominant faction.

This game is unbalanced.

That is NOT subjective - that is simply the truth. And if you don't believe it then do a Cray-only versus Order-only match on Desert or Brazen and tell me what you get. Hint: Order meds and beams will rape Crayven. Every time, and let's be honest: we all know this is true. Every time we do Desert or Brazen or whatever, and a player is about to bring Crayven, we ALWAYS say "Are you sure you want to bring Crayven?" It is a difficult faction to play, etc. We all know that Order rules it on open maps.

Meanwhile go play a close-terrain match Crayven-only versus Order only. That will be balanced, with Order and Cray winning about half the time. But that still leaves Order dominant on half the maps, which is unbalanced by definition.

Next, the gameplay is not set in stone. That's a perception of players, not game designers. Those things aren't real tanks, they're just entities. Game designers know that it's all smoke-and-mirrors tricks. All they are are object entities. We can program them to behave any way we want them to.

Do we want to systemically discriminate against one faction?

Let me know because that IS a marketing barrier. We are blocking out 50% of our potential audience (let's assume half the players would prefer to play Crayven based on look-and-feel), if we realistically talk about trying to remake GC as a new game. It's a lot of work and financial risk to try to do something like reboot a franchise. Ground Control does NOT have a track record as a financial investment - it IS a business failure (despite our love for the game). There are other reasons for that failure (things like the complexity of the camera) - but I would venture that Crayven being a crippled faction is one reason.

So, I'm requesting a change to attempt a new playtest, that's all.

I've noticed all sorts of changes implemented based on the input of other players.

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Re: GC 1.1.0.1 update mod

Postby XFunc_CaRteR » 03 Jul 2014 00:29

By the way Nox, I wouldn't worry about this as much as you are.

If it works, facing a Crayven player on an open map would be a little bit similar to facing another Order player (a little bit, but not much). We're not talking about making Crayven into a super-faction.... Just one where a Cray player doesn't get his face mashed in the dirt most of the time if he dares to take Cray on an open map.

One where people don't say, "Are you sure you want to bring Crayven?"

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Re: GC 1.1.0.1 update mod

Postby Ninja_Prime52 » 03 Jul 2014 19:18

I would love to play CC all the time, but I even have to admit that if I want to gain any points I need to use OND. CC due to their slowness are very hard to manoeuvre against an OND player, and against , _nox_ , Ghant, Crinkle, to name but a few... FORGET IT you are toast!
I enjoy it when we do CC v CC units only, that makes things more fun and interesting.
By all means continue with the MOD, you never know, something may come out of it.
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Re: GC 1.1.0.1 update mod

Postby shpooky » 03 Jul 2014 19:53

I agree with carter about making cc stand a chance on flat maps but I think that there should be that trace of doubt when someone does bring cc on a open map(should be vise versa for ond on hilly maps)
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